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jerlim
Admiral
USA
972 Posts |
 Initially Posted - 07/27/2010 : 09:55:46
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Thought it might be useful to kick this topic around for a bit...
Having just spent a bunch on a new carb and fuel pump, I am pretty focused on prevention and am curious what products folks are adding to their fuel tanks. We'll be regular users of Marine Sta-Bil (until now, we've only used their fuel stabilizer in the winter).
Dave Bristle has written he also uses Star Tron - what if anything is anyone else using  |
Jerry
Whisper
C-25, #1672,'80, SR/SK
S. Jamesport, NY |
Edited by - jerlim on 07/27/2010 09:56:31 |
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JohnP
Admiral
Maldives
874 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 10:41:23
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| I now use Marine Formula Sta-Bil religiously in each fuel tank or storage tank of gas. |
JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant
USA
6777 Posts |
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Stinkpotter
Admiral
Djibouti
678 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:36:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Champipple
Biobor microbicide.
...to prevent algae in his diesel fuel tank--otherwise it grows, dies, forms sludge, gets stirred up in a seaway, and then clogs his filters. Algae isn't an issue with gasoline.
The other protection I'm a proponent of is the Racor water separator/filter as discussed in a recent thread. If you get gas with some water in it, or water "phase separates" from your E-10 gas, it settles into the bottom of the clear container under the filter. |
Dave Bristle
Past member, Chief Curmudgeon, and current Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
DPO of C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).
  
Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge. |
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piseas
Treasurer
USA
1561 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:47:51
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Great topic.
Duane, I like that your product states its Eco-friendly. But let me understand, is it only for diesel engines?
And Sta-Bil and other additives are designed to fight the damaging effects of Ethanol, correct? Most of the other additives such as Star Tron stabilize gas for short and long term periods of inactivity.
So if you use your boat regularly, then these products are not needed, correct? I ask as I am in that category and have never used any product such as these. I also have never had any fuel problems as well. But I guess an ounce of prevention.......
Steve A |
PiSeas II
2003 C250 WK #692
Port Captain, Newport Beach, CA
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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant
USA
1346 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 13:14:44
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| I guess I'm just lucky. I use nothing. I've not had a problem with the 01 (2 cycle) Tohastu 8 in 4 years with and average outing every 3rd week. Same applies to my 1974 2 cycle 50 Johnson, although last week-end I had my first gas related problem when it seems there's gunk in the tank that plugged the intake causing the primer bulb to deflate, had to shake the tank a few times to work the crap loose. I do use stable in my Suzuki 2.5 because that only gets used once every 5 or 6 months. |
Dave Robbins
*Bamboo*
'89 SR/WK #5877
Daytona Bch., FL
  
http://wave.mysite.com
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djdurrett
Navigator
105 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 14:21:41
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| Seafoam. Awesome product. |
C25 TR/FK #1130
1979
Bay View Marina
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX |
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant
USA
6777 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 16:33:08
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quote:
Originally posted by piseas
Great topic.
Duane, I like that your product states its Eco-friendly. But let me understand, is it only for diesel engines?
I wonder how can something that kills biologics be "eco friendly"...Yes, it is only for diesel. Even with a water separator you are going to get water in the tank. It grows algae over time, then clogs your lines to the point where you don't even get fuel to the primary filter.
I figured I'd post if for the handful of guys that have inboard diesels on the 25. |
D. Wolff
DPO C25 Hull 401
Currently Sailing "Champagne and Ripple" 1982 O'day 30
Chief Measurer 2002-2006
Vice-commodore 2007 |
Edited by - Champipple on 07/27/2010 16:36:10 |
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Stinkpotter
Admiral
Djibouti
678 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 20:44:22
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I suspect that 2-cycles tolerate a lot more than the new 4-cycles, because of the way they're carburated and the oil mixed into every drop of gas that passes through. I was advised by a Honda mechanic, because of the issues with E-10, to stabilize every tank. Stabil and Startron are apparently (based on my slim understanding) two different chemical approaches to doing this. The Startron people told me there was no conflict between them. Marine Stabil includes some cleaning and anti-corrosion agents... etc. In season, I use half the dosage recommended for stabilizing between seasons. But I also go almost a couple of months between fill-ups.
For you guys, and ounce of prevention is practically free--16 ounces might last you for years. That ounce of prevention costs me more (for a lot more ounces), but I'm trying to protect a 200 Boat Unit investment. I also can't practically avoid having some of my gas from this summer in my tank well into next summer... So I'll err on the side of possible redundancy. YSMV (Your situation might vary). |
Dave Bristle
Past member, Chief Curmudgeon, and current Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
DPO of C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing).
Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge. |
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/27/2010 20:47:12 |
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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant
USA
1346 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:38:45
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quote:
For you guys, and ounce of prevention is practically free--16 ounces might last you for years. That ounce of prevention costs me more (for a lot more ounces), but I'm trying to protect a 200 Boat Unit investment. I also can't practically avoid having some of my gas from this summer in my tank well into next summer... So I'll err on the side of possible redundancy. YSMV (Your situation might vary).
I think I'll crank that 2.5 today, fill the tank and add some more stable |
Dave Robbins
*Bamboo*
'89 SR/WK #5877
Daytona Bch., FL
http://wave.mysite.com
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OJ
Master Marine Consultant
USA
2137 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 13:00:16
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By coincidence the Johnson dealer called today to say our dinghy motor was ready. I asked him how ethanol was going to impact both of our motors. His bottom line answer was there's no additive that will make water combustible. Customers tell him they add dry-gas to their tanks and he tells them it's meant to prevent the water in fuel from freezing - when it's 32 degress or below outside.
I don't doubt that all the junk they are putting into gasoline today isn't impacting engine performance. In the summer months the gasoline suppliers deliver the "summer blend" to reduce air pollution. Are these additives all hocus-pocus? Sort of like the stuff they sell for septic tanks? You can't see it - so is it really working?
Right now I'm just hope'n I'm gonna see water in the fuel filter/water separator I so expertly justified to the Admiral. |
Edited by - OJ on 07/28/2010 13:31:23 |
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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant
USA
1910 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 14:17:43
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tell me more about seafoam. I have heard about this from others, but I'm not sure what it is and what it does.
I have a diesel |
Frank Gloss
Formerly 89WK/TR
85 Ericson 32-3 shoal draft "Molto Bene" |
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djdurrett
Navigator
105 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 14:49:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Gloss
tell me more about seafoam. I have heard about this from others, but I'm not sure what it is and what it does.
I have a diesel
quote:
Originally posted by Gloss
tell me more about seafoam. I have heard about this from others, but I'm not sure what it is and what it does.
I have a diesel
I use it for everything, cars, boats and motorcycles. You can add it to your fuel, send it through your brake booster line to clean throttle body and intake (dealers charge a premium for this... search for it on you tube), and you can even add it to your oil (so says the can). I have been adding it to every other tank on my 50hp 2cycle and have not had to service the carbs since 2003.
From their website:
Safely frees sticky lifters and piston rings, removes carbon build-up and oil residue, reduces pinging and rough idle. For Carbureted or Fuel Injected Gasoline Engines - Autos – Trucks – Tractors – Motorcycles – Marine – Small Engines – Industrial Engines Great for Diesel Engines Too!
SEA FOAM Motor Treatment is a 100% pure petroleum product that safely and effectively cleans internal fuel and oil system components, helping your gasoline or diesel engine run cleaner and more efficiently. SEA FOAM is an EPA-registered product, and will not harm engine components, seals, gaskets, catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.
SEA FOAM liquefies gum and varnish deposits or internal engine contaminants, removing carbon deposits, freeing sticky valve lifters and rings curing rough idle, pinging and hesitation problems. By using SEA FOAM to eliminate varnish and carbon buildup, mechanics can more accurately diagnose mechanical problems that may exist. That is why Sea Foam has been so popular with professional mechanics for over 65 years.
As a fuel system additive, Sea Foam will clean fuel injectors, clean carbon, gum and varnish deposits, add lubricity to fuel, stabilize fuel for 2 years and control moisture.
As an oil system additive, Sea Foam controls moisture, gum, varnish and residue deposits. |
C25 TR/FK #1130
1979
Bay View Marina
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX |
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Dave5041
Mainsheet Editor
USA
1378 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 18:23:41
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| Nothing will stabilize E-10 for years. Max recommended shelf life of the gas is 3 months regardless of what you add. All fuels contain system cleaners, lubricants, and stabilizers, but adding more doesn't hurt. I use nothing and have no problems, but I use two 3 gal tanks; when the tank in use goes below 1/2-3/4, I fill the reserve tank. I run the tank dry before switching. If I used one tank and refilled it before it was dry or kept my fuel over 2 months, I would use a stabilizer and dump the fuel into my car after 90 days. |
Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Pensacola
Mainsheet General Editor |
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cks
Navigator
100 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:51:05
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By "dumping it into my car", do you mean that you put the old gas into your car gas tank? Why would a car engine be less susceptible to harm than an outboard?
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jerlim
Admiral
USA
972 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:53:51
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| The old fuel mixes in w/ the fresher fuel in the car's tank and is 'diluted' by the better gas. |
Jerry
Whisper
C-25, #1672,'80, SR/SK
S. Jamesport, NY |
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jbkayaker
Navigator
USA
246 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 09:04:18
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| I use the Marine Sta-Bil additive and go out of my way to find gasoline without ethanol. Motor is 1999 Nissan 2 cycle outboard with new fuel lines approved for ethanol. |
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PCP777
Captain
USA
490 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 09:10:58
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quote:
Originally posted by djdurrett
quote:
Originally posted by Gloss
tell me more about seafoam. I have heard about this from others, but I'm not sure what it is and what it does.
I have a diesel
quote:
Originally posted by Gloss
tell me more about seafoam. I have heard about this from others, but I'm not sure what it is and what it does.
I have a diesel
I use it for everything, cars, boats and motorcycles. You can add it to your fuel, send it through your brake booster line to clean throttle body and intake (dealers charge a premium for this... search for it on you tube), and you can even add it to your oil (so says the can). I have been adding it to every other tank on my 50hp 2cycle and have not had to service the carbs since 2003.
From their website:
Safely frees sticky lifters and piston rings, removes carbon build-up and oil residue, reduces pinging and rough idle. For Carbureted or Fuel Injected Gasoline Engines - Autos – Trucks – Tractors – Motorcycles – Marine – Small Engines – Industrial Engines Great for Diesel Engines Too!
SEA FOAM Motor Treatment is a 100% pure petroleum product that safely and effectively cleans internal fuel and oil system components, helping your gasoline or diesel engine run cleaner and more efficiently. SEA FOAM is an EPA-registered product, and will not harm engine components, seals, gaskets, catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.
SEA FOAM liquefies gum and varnish deposits or internal engine contaminants, removing carbon deposits, freeing sticky valve lifters and rings curing rough idle, pinging and hesitation problems. By using SEA FOAM to eliminate varnish and carbon buildup, mechanics can more accurately diagnose mechanical problems that may exist. That is why Sea Foam has been so popular with professional mechanics for over 65 years.
As a fuel system additive, Sea Foam will clean fuel injectors, clean carbon, gum and varnish deposits, add lubricity to fuel, stabilize fuel for 2 years and control moisture.
As an oil system additive, Sea Foam controls moisture, gum, varnish and residue deposits.
Where do you get it around here? I just had to have my carb rebuilt and cleaned on the Mercury. The needle valve was wrecked with trash. They put new floats, jets and needle valves in it. I got the insider price of $85 to do the whole thing and the labor was free fro removing the carb and replacing it. I also spent about $45 replacing the red text fuel line to a blue text one that's designed to handle enthanol.
Runs like a champ now though, we will be sailing all weekend. 
I have a 6 gallon tank and use the boat at least once a week. |
Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX
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Sloop Smitten
Admiral
USA
768 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 10:18:01
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| NAPA carries it. |
Joe Wergers
Utopia
Fleet 7/Oceanside, CA
78 C25 FK/SR #381
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djdurrett
Navigator
105 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 12:27:47
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Auto Zone has it too.
quote:
Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
NAPA carries it.
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C25 TR/FK #1130
1979
Bay View Marina
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX |
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PCP777
Captain
USA
490 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 15:25:41
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quote:
Originally posted by djdurrett
Auto Zone has it too.
quote:
Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
NAPA carries it.
Hitting it after work, how much do you put in? You going sailing this weekend? We're doing a night sail tomorrow night, might take JV and Stephanos out. Moon is still very bright. |
Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX
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britinusa
Web Editor
USA
3155 Posts |
Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 17:02:23
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Our 13kw house generator would only run with the choke fully closed, move it run and it wouldn't if you get my drift.
I cleaned the carb with WD40, replaced the inline fuel filter and washed the grit out of the fuel tank with several rinses of gasoline through paper filters. That got the engine running but as above, it would now only run if the choke was fully closed.
Went to NAPA, I know the guy there, always helpful. He said to rinse it with SeaFoam.
I soaked the stripped Carb in seafoam for 24 hours, you should see the color! Not the nice crystal clear liquid that I poured into the soaking bowl.
Will put the carb back together Saturday.
Now that I plan on keeping a can of seafoam, and after contacting Briggs & Stratton, I intend to add a dose to the fuel before each trip and the genny at each filling.
Paul |
Joint Decision.
C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.
Launched June 5th. 2005
Updated June 19th 2009
Check out MVBizX |
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jerlim
Admiral
USA
972 Posts |
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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant
USA
1834 Posts |
Response Posted - 08/11/2010 : 03:37:04
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I have Startron, Sta-Bil and Seafoam. I mostly have used the Startron for the outboard with each portable gas tank fill-up but then ran out of it and still had a full bottle of Sta-Bil which I mostly use for my lawn mowers (self-propelled and riding) when layed up between December-March. So...I am now using the Sta-Bil for my outboard.
I recently used Seafoam for two of our cars. The Seafoam removes carbon deposits that have formed inside the engine/valves. Bulletin Boards for autos oftentimes contain member postings favoring this product and some have claimed that their dealership also use it for some cars experiencing premature carbon buildups. I have no real carbon deposit issues at present but just thought I would use it for a couple of tank fill-ups as a preventative measure. Past experience has been that cars with 100K+ miles on them are more prone to carbon buildup that may require drilling out by a dealership or gas station. Then again, one may have no issues at all. |
Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Wash DC http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html |
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant
USA
1219 Posts |
Response Posted - 08/15/2010 : 17:27:13
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After a very active season of good performance, my Honda 8 is just starting to idle a little rough, especially at low idle.
I've read the Practical Sailor article, so which product is best for removing deposits? Stabil, Startron, Techron or Sea Foam?
I've got Stabil and Startron on board already. |
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032
Association Member ~ Port Captain ~ Stratford & Milford, CT |
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jerlim
Admiral
USA
972 Posts |
Response Posted - 08/15/2010 : 19:03:00
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| The best I can figure is use one of the top two - as per PS - and use always...it may be that the damage has already been done (is happening) to your carb and pump (those were my symptoms also)... |
Jerry
Whisper
C-25, #1672,'80, SR/SK
S. Jamesport, NY |
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